Teen Gothic

To start things off, I‘d like to explain my reasoning behind this post. I have considered myself to be goth for about a year now (give or take). In this time I‘ve only learned about the musical history of the subculture, which is by far the most important it seems. The partition from mainstream punk to the opening of the Batcave (which isn‘t all too far apart time-wise iirc.) Have I missed an important political event or movement?

Recently I’ve been indulging in more goth tiktok content, which i‘ve been steering clear of because well.. tiktok can be cruel and misleading. I came across a video talking about how the musical history is important, however the political side and the ideals are more important. Ideals? Politics? Have I missed something? (i possibly might have, as one cant know everything)

In this persons comments I proceeded to inform them about how the music is the core and main part of the subculture. I asked them in a relatively friendly manner if they could tell me about the political side of the subculture because I had assumed the subculture to be mainly music focused unlike the Punk culture which it originated from.

They seemed to have taken my comment as a sort of attack or rant which wasn’t my intention at all. I apologized and wanted to make sure that they knew I was genuinely asking a question in hopes to learn more. They ended up blocking me before I could properly get my point across.

I apologize if this is a hard and/or long read. This topic has been bothering me because I genuinely didn‘t want to offend this person. I hope somebody here could tell me about the more political side of the goth subculture.

I got into the Goth scene in the mid-2000s, and my first exposure came in the form of artists on the Dancing Ferret label – The Cruxshadows, Ego Likeness, ThouShaltNot, and The Last Dance were the sacred standbys of my peer group who were first discovering the Dark Arts, so to speak. The Where's Neil When You Need Him? tribute album is perhaps the most representative sample of the scene and era.

I notice however that this period and this section of the Goth music kingdom is ignored by Goth historians: Lol Tolhurst ignores it in his recent Goth: A History, jumping between '90s Depeche Mode and 2010s-2020s post-punk revival.

Goth Music: From Sound to Subculture by Elferen and Weinstock mostly focuses on Industrial and Death Rock, and largely acts under the assumption that this era and corner of the Goth scene never existed.

Would it be inaccurate to say that these artists, neglected by historians of Goth music/subculture, constitute the Goth scene's lost years?

We're getting tired of people posting about it so this is the thread we are going to refer people to. No book has ever had 5+ posts in a month in r/goth.

These links have been posted previously. Here they are again so those who haven't read the book can get some insight into what it is about and join in the discussion.

https://loltolhurst.com/gothic/

https://post-punk.com/lol-tolhurst-delves-into-the-dark-romanticism-of-goth-with-forthcoming-new-book-on-the-subculture/amp/

https://apnews.com/article/goth-history-book-lol-tolhurst-cure-37451452c321455ea0c3c166a525d071

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2023/sep/21/goth-a-history-by-lol-tolhurst-review-the-dark-is-rising

Some quotes people seem to be focusing on the most –

“It’s not really a fashion,” he says. “It’s more of a philosophy in a way of being, a way of approaching the world. And I think that ensures its longevity. It’s malleable, but it’s sort of basic premise is always the same.”

“My life in Goth served as a kind of communal reverse meditation,” Tolhurst writes. “By exploring the darkness of books, films, music, and paintings together, we escaped for a brief moment to better understand the place we all found ourselves in time and space. We kept floating but now (were) a little more liberated."

We have had to remove a few comments and posts using this book to attack people. This will not be tolerated in this discussion. Keep it civil please, be critical and debate but don't insult. Remember the sub's rules.

That’s the thrust of his new book, “Goth: A History”: Goth isn’t a way of dressing or a genre of music, but a lens through which to see the world. Goth is for everyone, Tolhurst writes, and it’s not a “phase” one has to outgrow.

“My life in Goth served as a kind of communal reverse meditation,” Tolhurst writes. “By exploring the darkness of books, films, music, and paintings together, we escaped for a brief moment to better understand the place we all found ourselves in time and space. We kept floating but now (were) a little more liberated.”

I’ve quite literally said this very thing in my own way, and been shut down for it by the gatekeepers of this reddit. But, as an 80’s kid, this was my experience and not unlike founding Cure member Tolhurst, I still think goth is a big enough umbrella to shelter all darkly inclined people, imo. What are your thoughts, and what are based on?

I highly recommend this book.

I get some folks don't know who Lol Tolhurst is or how important he is as an observer on the front lines of the Goth movement but here we are. Read the book or not. It's fantastic.

Bonus – listen to Lol and Budgie's podcast if you really want to experience things:

https://curiouscreaturespodcast.com/

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Oh hi. I’m wondering if anyone can recommend a coffee table book (or not. Doesn’t have to be a coffee table book but I like also using books as decor) that goes through the history of goth music?

Anybody ever hear about or want to lovingly reminisce on the now legendary Emo, Goth, Punk Wars of Metro Insurgentes Mexico City, Mexico? Did you know that in 2008, the Insurgentes Mexico City metro station was the site of an hours-long fight between emo, punk, metal, and goth groups? The police couldn’t stop the grouping. Then suddenly a group of Hare Krishnas joined in and only they were able to disperse the crowds lol! This is one of my favorite endings of all time. Thought people here might appreciate it. Heres a video too, not the best translation but better than nada: https://fb.watch/lugBvlf8PH/?fs=e&s=cl