Teen Gothic

I find it somewhat absurd that some argue Boy Harsher isn't goth simply because it lacks a guitar element to distinguish it from synthpop or other related genres. We all acknowledge The Frozen Autumn as darkwave, even though it lacks a guitar. What's the rationale here? The Frozen Autumn often sounds more like synthpop than Boy Harsher. If our distinction of modern goth music relies on popular opinion rather than factual evidence from the history of past genres and their correlation with the goth subculture, then why engage in subjective arguments? Boy Harsher isn't completly industrial, and it doesn't sound like new wave. So why the debate?

As an audio engineer and musician, I get confused because I can discern the similarities and differences between each music creator and the inspiration they draw from others. Yet, within this subreddit, contradictory, hypocritical, and cognitively dissonant remarks are prevalent.

like… no? gothic rock has existed a long time, and is pretty clearly definied with a relatively destinct sound. i could see some arguments being made for lumping in some adjacent genres, but saying any music goths like is goth music is a dumb argument since not only, like i said, does goth have a pretty clear musical definition, but also goths can like non goth music. i like hyperpop, that doesn't suddenly make 100 gecs a goth band.

plus, if you get rid of a definition for what goth music is other than stuff that goths like, then you also end up getting rid of a definition for goth

sorry for posting a lot of discussion posts, i'm a bit high and by extension wired/chatty lol. i didn't see anything in rules about repeat posts other than posting music, but i can take down some discussion posts if need be

I will preface this by saying this was a disagreement on tiktok which sounds so silly and i realize this.

Anyways, this girl posted a makeup look with dark eyeshadow and eyeliner and she put “#gothic” as one of the hashtags. People were grilling her in the comments saying this wasn’t goth, she didn’t look goth, etc. and I personally felt that was wrong. I commented and shared how goth is a music based subculture and that as long as you love the music, know the ideals and history of this subculture, you are goth! The makeup and fashion is just a plus. And I went on to say how there are plenty of folks who are goths and do not look the part (me included most of the time, thanks Covid)

And someone argued with me saying that goths follow a certain aesthetic and the one she’s dressed as is not it. And I said that I understand that but I think there should be more room for individual expression because the typical goth aesthetic is not one size fits all. And then they shot back at me saying things such as “well you can’t wear lip gloss and pink and be considered goth, etc” and I just am wondering where this whole mindset is coming from?

It was really giving off “you don’t look goth enough if you aren’t wearing x/y/z” vibes which I think could give baby bats a bad taste when first entering the subculture. Why can’t we wear pink and lip gloss and still be goths? I ended the argument with a respectful exit but I’m curious what you guys think. I personally think that since the core foundation of goth is music, it shouldn’t matter what you look like. But this is simply my opinion and any other thoughts are welcome! No opinion is wrong, we all have our points of view and I accepted hers with grace even if I disagreed

I also apologize if this is not the right space, please remove if need be!!