Teen Gothic

So as stated before, I prefer to take a descriptive rather than prescriptive approach to subcultures and their boundaries. I'm not saying what goth should be, but rather attempting to describe a cultural milieu I spend time in. I have no interest in telling any person whether or not they can call themselves goth, and I'm not here for "is X band actually goth or actually goth-inflected darkwave?" debates (at least here, they can be a lot of fun between friends when attempting to organize a record collection).

But I've been thinking about the term "music-based subculture" and why that's important, and frankly, a more open and welcoming approach to creating a basis for a subculture than other options we might consider.

Goth is undoubtedly a subculture, and a subculture is something that is communal. Subcultures are first and foremost communities, and the other thing about subcultures is typically, they have to have something they do because you have to have some reason to get large groups of people to hang out. You can't just be like "Let's have an event where everyone who does velvet paintings of Elvis stands in a room together".

Music as a basis for a subculture is a popular choice because playing/listening to/dancing to music is possibly one of the oldest large-group social activities there is. Music is a fantastic way to create an ambience and to get a large group of people feeling in tune with one another.

Music is a draw for events and has a relatively low barrier of entry. As opposed to, say, modifying trucks, which requires a large material investment to buy a truck to modify before you can participate, or even a fashion-based subculture, which also again is generally more expensive to enter.

That's what's cool about a music-based subculture: the events are open to anyone who likes the sound of the music, and the cost of entry is generally low.

You don't have to have your look sorted out to become a member. If there is a look, generally the friends you make through the music help you figure out how to do it (should you want to) which is far less intimidating than showing up to a fashion-based event when you're not really sure how to do it yet.

Music is the basis of goth because without the music, you don't have gigs and DJ nights, and basically all the places and spaces you go to make friends as a goth who wants to hang out with other goths.

There are subcultures based around many things, like fondness for anime, an interest in fly fishing, or a passion for Medieval Persian poetry, but every subculture has to have something to *do (*whether it's cosplay contests, fly fishing, or attending lectures on Medeival Persian poetry). If gothness were merely a vibe, well, there wouldn't be that central activity that allows for goth-as-subculture to be a thing. You can't have a community based around a vibe; there has to be some activity to go with the vibe, and with goth, thankfully, it's music.

And in a world as isolating and atomized as ours presently is, I think that remembering that the music is what creates the environments that allow birds of a feather (black or otherwise) to flock together is important, because subcultures are milieus that create lasting and meaningful relationships.

Music and dance are really magical in the way they create a common bond between people experiencing them together. That's why music-based subcultures tend to be so rich and generate so much culture around the music.

In reminding people that fundamentally the music is the basis for the whole thing, we keep the doors far more open than we would if we were to define it through adoption of a specific style of dress, and by defining it as something we create a point clear enough for people to actually gather around, and that's a good thing.

I know, I know the point has been made before, so if the mods want they'll probably just cast the post into the darkness, but I have a slightly more elaborate point to make than just "poseurs bad".

I was thinking earlier. I actually only goth into goth in my like, mid 20s, by wondering randomly "what's goth actually about, anyway?" And looking it up, finding some music that struck me like a shot to the heart and getting hooked.

Only, then I remembered, that wasn't the first time I'd thought that and looked into it. The first time was when I was a teenager. But when I looked it up at the time, what I came across was instead forums and stuff by those "goth is a feeling" types who think they're goth because they like spooky shit and dressing in black. So back then, I thought "if it's just a feeling, what's the point? You'd be one by accident. That's just putting a label on nothing." And so, I bounced off it assuming it was basically just some people wanting a special label to feel important and different.

I got a bit annoyed remembering that. If there'd been better information back then – or if I was more thorough, perhaps, and they weren't hogging the most obvious goth site names for their poser shit – I might've got into goth way sooner and got to have good experiences with it and come across the music I like so much sooner. And that's why they suck.

Anders Manga v. Stability AI

I live in a small city in Spain, and there is nothing to do as a goth. There are rock clubs, but they won't play the slightest bit of post-punk, goth rock or any other related subgenres. It's so frustrating.

The worst part is that this entire country lacks goth scene everywhere. Big cities (Madrid and Barcelona) have a few goth nights every now and then, that's it. I believe in Barcelona there's a bit more going on (never been there), but still, it feels completely dead.

I think there are a lot of frustrated goths in Spain, just like me. It isn't that rare and we have some nice local bands. But where is the scene? I just want to have fun in a goth club, dress up and dance to my favourite music :/

Anyone who is in this situation (I know there are people as it's a common topic in this sub hehe): write about it. What do you do to enjoy music outside? How do you meet other goths?

And for the ones who live in places with a goth scene: where is it? Tell us frustrated people your tales. Make us jelaous

I just wanna hear your thoughts ^{^}

Lol I'm just wondering if it's just me. I live in a warm country but winter is my passion (literally) I feel so good when it's winter outside and I like to sit at night with the air conditioner on and listen to bands like London after Midnight, Twin Tribes and Horror Vacui and they just give me that feeling lol Does this happen to you too?

I also listen to metal, mainly thrash and melodeath for those who know and I really like metal but it doesn't give me the same feeling except maybe a couple bands. I think it's the atmosphere that gives this vibe.

Look, I appreciate (to a degree) that everyone and their grand, great n' great great grandchildren want to be "Goth" These days…..seeing the style and culture flourish as it has is enlightening and enjoyable….however…..can we PLEASE stop with these supposed Goth girls on Tic Tac n' whatnot posting these fit vids and whatever else they're doing….but using this modern shitty rap or pop garbage!?! What the Hell…..you can't even use Goth music?? While we're at it, let's answer another question I just saw posted here that actually inspired this very post…. "Can you still be Goth if you don't like the music?" The answer is a LOUD, resounding NO! The Goth culture is centered around it's……wait for it………..Music! (And fashion), which reflects the……..again………MUSIC! So, if you're dressing Goth and doing vids to music that had absolutely nothing to do with the culture then you, madam, or sir…..are simply a trend follower……plain and simple…… there hope I cleared that up….. Rock on……or not….

Ok, I'm a complete babybat and I'm still learning about all this. The quote from the title is NOT something that I said but it was something an "elder experienced goth" told me and I'm not sure whether that person is being truthful or not.

This elder Goth talks about how Goth "HAS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH PUNK" because "goth was the opposite reaction to the ultra political movement of punk and it's only based in art and every sociopolitical expression should be discarded immediately from the subculture" According to this person "Goth is Apolitical"

This elder Goth also separates the Punk from the Post Punk movement and says that "Post Punk was created out of this "'Punk is dead' realization and it's meant to NOT be political at all because it seeks the opposite of what Punk was = zero involvement in politics" This person also discards ABSOLUTELY any kind of DIY because "DIY derives from Punk and the Goth Subculture was created from Post Punk NOT from the Punk movement, so it's NOT related at all"

That's sounds really interesting ngl, most of us have the idea that Goth was a direct product of punk but this "elder wise goth" makes a distinction between Punk and Post Punk and explains that Goth was born out of Post Punk as a backlash from Punk politics.

What y'all think about this, do you really think that Goth is COMPLETELY APOLITICAL AND ANY SOCIOPOLITICAL POSITION SHOULD BE AUTOMATICALLY DISCARDED BECAUSE GOTH IS APOLITICAL (?????????????????)

I'm going to be honest, I'm not 100% sure about what this person told me because this "elder wise goth" is a transphobic and has stalked and has harassed others Goths online with the excuse of "correcting them" about the origins of the subculture.