Teen Gothic

I'm still quite new here, so please go easy on me…

I've always listened to alternative music, Rock, Metal, Punk etc and more recently I've been listening to goth.

I'm listening to playlists on Spotify called things like "Real goth music" and there's a varied range of styles on there, spanning different decades. What I'm trying to work out is what ties them together and means they are classified as "goth", a lot of them I can't join the dots between, for example there's loads of Joy Division, which sounds nothing like the Sisters of Mercy.

Is it the subject matter, the vocal style, aesthetic of the band or something else, or a mixture of all three? (Or more)

The Cure have always been cited as one of the quintessential goth bands, but what makes songs like "Friday I'm in love" gothic and just not a pop song? Why is "Wasteland" by the mission not just classified as rock.

I'm trying to establish themes in my head, like bass driven melodies, chorus heavy guitars etc but this certainly isn't the rule for everything.

What makes a song goth and not just Rock, Dance, etc? I know it's not just about the aesthetic as there are people who dress in a gothic(ish) style that makes music that isn't considered goth, for example Cradle of Filth, which is probably where I first saw the whole corpse paint, black clothes aesthetic!

I'm genuinely asking for philosophical/discussion reasons, not for drama.

Thought of this while a leonard cohen song came on and I remembered part of an interview of him talking about how he'd been so depressed that if there was an antidepressant on the market, he probably tried it, and how a lot of his songs are about sex, loss, grief, melancholy, etc. Im not arguing that he considered HIMSELF goth or that he was INTENDING to make goth music necessarily, just that through a certain lens he has SOME songs that could fit the bill, either through content or (even bigger reach I'll admit) some of his more experimental backing tracks

So what specifically makes something "sound" goth? What makes someone a goth artist, aside from self-description? People argue its about the music and sound, so do the aesthetics not matter then? If someone can be a "fake goth" by only being interested in the aesthetics and fashion, what does "real goth" look, feel, sound like?

For a more fun question, what's your most out of pocket example of a song that could be goth if you squint? Can you explain your argument?

For me its more about finding the right feel, its not something i can really put into words, but context is important, like if im hearing a 'non-goth' artist right after a 'goth classic' and it has the right angle or subject, it doesnt disrupt the flow of the playlist, yknow? I think someone could be goth without dressing up or someone who is into the mindset/culture/fashion but doesnt care for any of the typical goth music recs is still goth if they want to be. Goths can be very upbeat and positive in how they handle life, which i feel like is a normie misconception but a pervasive one nonetheless. Idk, i know im overthinking bc i havent had much chance to hang out in goth-specific spaces or circles so in a lot of ways im still new to the subculture, but in others i feel like i grew up in it without realizing it? between my parents loving macabre and morbid humor/media/decor and my childhood spent around my friend's parents who were really involved in the goth music scene from the late 80s on. So im just curious for other perspectives on it.

Well it kinda makes sense. Has She Past Away been around so long that people forget how much they’ve contributed and inspired? They’ve Toured extensively through out the world inspiring a lot of people and bands. They didn’t have the help of Tik Tok like other bands and even Spotify. They may seem tame now with so many bands popping up but they introduced a lot of people into the genre and related subgenres. I’d throw in Lebanon in this conversation too of people forgetting how important these bands were/are especially touring different continents . And it also kinda feels like most people in this sub are 20 and just discarding bands like gum for the new flavor of the time so that might be the actual reason

Siouxie and the Banshees & Bauhaus are my 2 favourites right now. I just want to dance in an abandoned graveyard under a full moon, with no one for miles. Its such a special vibe that I've never ever had with any other music.

Please give me more artists/bands reccomendations! Or you could tell me your favorite songs from the either that I've listed!

I'll start, the live version of joy division covering sister ray.

I’m fairly new to the gothic community and i’m a little confused. There’s a lot of discourse going on currently on tiktok concerning gothic music about a band called ‘Strawberry Switchblades’. People are arguing its 90’s pop, but others are saying its a genre of gothic music. Can somebody help please?

Do any other autistic goths feel this way? I feel like alot of autistic traits are just seen as goth stereotypes to most people. One example is that one of my biggest special interest is horror. Normally people would be like "Why do you know so much about violent media? You're a freak…" While with me they go "Ofc you like that stuff just look at you" along with many other autistic traits being seen as stereotypes such as barely emoting or being touch averse. And thats not even mentioning the fact that goth dancing is peak stimming. I feel like being goth gives autistic people a good excuse to unmask because we don't have to worry about being seen as weird if society at large already does.

Something that irritates me..

These guys are acting really weird these days since they want a 'goth partner' for some reason and its weird.

but because I'm a goth guy I'm cringe or something among these words.

They've been only creepy towards girls and it's annoying tbh. My friend(who's a goth girl) had normal guys acting weird around her for no reason.

(this is no hate whatsoever towards normal guys, I've just been noticing their creepy/weird behaviour toward goth people)

-random baby bat.

So, the first time I heard goth music, was in 2011. It was like a sudden kick in stomach. Like magic. Like a lightning strike. Like an orgasm. It was so good, it became the main genre I used to listen to for next several years. I used to know many bands, old, new, famous, obscure, in different languages etc. It inspired me to write poetry. Whenever I listened to it, it would make me feel great.

Than a <mental illness> happened and I did a break.

Now I'm trying to return into listening goth music agaim and while I still like it, it's not THE MUSIC anymore. It's just good. One of the many other good music genres. Not the OH MY GOD IT'S SO GOOD I WANT TO LISTEN TO IT FOR THE ETERNITY music it used to be for me. And it makes me sad. Its like the fairytale has gone. Is there any way I can bring back those feelings and emotions?

*by goth music I mostly mean goth rock,but I enjoy deathrock sometimes too