Teen Gothic

Of course, I don't dislike every song of theirs – I don't think there's any band really for whom that's the case, and I'll gladly dance to Kiss Me Until My Lips Fall Off anytime it's played. But for the vast majority of their songs, the lyrics come off as unimaginative and uninteresting. Saddest Smile in particular reads like a middle schooler's diary entry, and all the times they've mentioned walking through graveyards in their songs feels like it's trying to appeal only to a very stereotypical idea of what goth is.

It all (mildly) frustrates me because I never seem to see any other goths online who share my opinion on this.

Ive just been a listener and have never went to shows. Finally going to one and insecure that i dont know how to dance lmao. From what ive seen most of it seems like a kind of swaying dance and lots of use of the arms. I dont wanna look like an idiot and be banished lol

I do apologize for using a throwaway 'cause I don't feel quite comfortable revealing myself and admitting what's been troubling me, But that said, given the nature of what I'm gonna share as well as me every so often mentioning a non-Goth culture for context I think it is more than fair for the mods to delete this post if they believe it doesn't belong here. I don't got a lot of people to talk about this though, so I'm just gonna give it a try.

Simply put, I love Goth music. And I've loved it for over ten years. Started when I was about 14 when I got into Fields of the Nephilim. Afterwards it was especially stuff from the 90s and early 2000s that I liked. Switchblade Symphony, Shadow Dance, Diva Destruction to name a few. Lately I've been getting into newer stuff which I admit passed me by before. I really like Lebanon Hanover and Nox Novacula.

But I also love and consider myself part of another culture which is Metal. Sure, hardly uncommon, y'all probably get like a million threads a day of a Metalhead asking for recommendations on Goth music or someone mistaking Gothic Metal for Goth. I have been a fan of Metal since I was 11. I'm 26 now. Been a fan of Metal even a bit longer than I've been a fan of Goth and Darkwave.

I got a circle of people from various subcultures. My best friend who I'd do anything for loves rap music. We grew up together. My girlfriend's into Industrial and EBM, cyberfalls, gasmask and all, but she likes Metal too, she's a lot more extroverted than I am. And I know Goths, of course. Have never had the chance to a Goth club though. There's a Metal pub here and that's where a lot of alternative folks in general go to. A Goth club just ain't there where I live and I ain't got the money to travel. Nevermind that I'm just shy so it's funny I suppose that I feel more intimidated than I do visiting a pub full of aging biker dudes.

But I just don't know anymore if I still have ''the right'' to consider myself associated with Goth culture. I constantly hear stories of animosity between Goths and Metalheads that discourages me and at times makes me feel like I'm intruding. The stories I hear of some Metalheads just showing up bullying people 'cause they ain't like them sickens me. And I don't want other Goths to see me, knowing that I got those same roots and feel intimidated by me. I don't wanna be that guy. Bad experiences are as valid as good experiences and I know that me saying ''there's good ones'' doesn't sound as sincere over the internet.

Where I live we all get along swimmingly. Most respect and appreciate eachother regardless of whether you're a Metalhead, Goth, Punk or whatever and those who ain't are out. We got a zero tolerance mind on that here. But maybe I'm just lucky to be in such an environment.

I'm not gonna dismiss people's experiences just 'cause my own were better. The things I've heard about what some tryhard windmill mcdumbfucks have done because they're so obsessed with their own tribe bothers me immensely. It's the kind of toxicity in my culture that I've brawled with the moment I've called myself a part of that culture. I know a lot of people who think the same.

There's this guy who got me into it when I was a kid, much older, was a friend of my mother, played ping pong with me to make me feel at ease. I don't even remember his name, took his life later but he gave me the keys to a community I could feel myself in back when I was just a little kid. I'm forever grateful for that.

But that culture can be very extroverted and overpowering you know? Great people but I just ain't always got the mental energy to keep up. It's like that pushy friend you love but you gotta have some space.

Through Goth music I've always felt there was a culture that's a bit more aware of my personal space and limits. No pressure, no feeling of having to prove something other than me liking the music. I'm the kinda guy who just likes to sit at the bar and have a chat with people. Have a drink or two and then go on my merry way.

But lately I just can't get over what I'm told. Goths telling me about the time metalheads came to bully them. The stories of toxic masculinity, homophobia, sexism and excessive tribalism. I can't stand people who do such things, but y'all know the meaning of the term ''rotten apples spoil the bunch'' right? Well I'm part of the bunch so inevitably I'm associated with such asshats. And knowing that, I don't want to make people feel uncomfortable and I certainly understand why there might be some Goth individuals who just feel like people with a Metal background don't belong even if they like Goth music. I might not agree but I understand how those feelings rise.

It makes me feel like it ain't my place to call myself associated with Goth culture. I've been calling out the BS in my own culture as much as I call out BS anywhere else. I've called out that ''When I zone out I see red'' Metalhead who went into the moshpit just to beat people up. And I've called out a Goth I knew who was let's just say more than a little racist. That's just a matter of values. Didn't think of what subculture they're from.

But I don't want to make people feel uncomfortable is all. I suppose I can get over a Goth not considering me a Goth 'cause I'm also a Metalhead. But I can't get over feeling like I'm intimidating people 'cause of my cultural background. I'm a pretty ''masculine'' person of the healthy variety, especially in appearance I'd say. Knowing the hypermasculine roots of Metal I know it leave an impression. I also know that such an impression isn't always a good one and I wanna do my best to alleviate those impressions not just 'cause I feel like I gotta play janitor and clean up the toxicity but also a matter of personal values.I just hear these stories so often there are times where I feel like maybe it just ain't my right to be there. I ain't saying I'm giving up on making my culture a more inclusive and welcoming environment, and I'm sure as hell not alone on that. I'm just saying that I don't wanna intrude. I'm a broken record at this but like I said; I don't wanna make people uncomfortable

I don't know if I still consider myself a Goth but I love the music, always will. And I respect Goths a great deal. That won't change.

I was at The Mission and The Chameleons last night in Seattle and at one point confetti went off during a song. A piece settled into the hair of a girl in front of me. The man standing next to me who WAS NOT WITH THE GIRL started to reach over to pick the confetti out of her hair. I pushed his arm away because don’t fucking touch strangers like that. Yeah it’s a show and you’re going to be pressed together to an extent but there was just something so gross about it.

like… no? gothic rock has existed a long time, and is pretty clearly definied with a relatively destinct sound. i could see some arguments being made for lumping in some adjacent genres, but saying any music goths like is goth music is a dumb argument since not only, like i said, does goth have a pretty clear musical definition, but also goths can like non goth music. i like hyperpop, that doesn't suddenly make 100 gecs a goth band.

plus, if you get rid of a definition for what goth music is other than stuff that goths like, then you also end up getting rid of a definition for goth

sorry for posting a lot of discussion posts, i'm a bit high and by extension wired/chatty lol. i didn't see anything in rules about repeat posts other than posting music, but i can take down some discussion posts if need be

Just looking for some super bitter and angry songs.Pretty much anything that gives off a feeling of being fed up and hating everything.

I (M) have identified as goth most of my life, but I struggle with feeling like I don't belong because I don't dress like a stereotypical "goth".

Although I do wear a decent amount of black (which I LOVE), it's generally not very "alternative" style.

I don't have tattoos, and no piercings, etc. (though in my heart I do)

Many days I look and dress like a typical person. Like, most days if someone saw me they would never guess I was goth. I know lots of people who identify as goth could say the same, but still.

I DO however have dark, witchy, goth decor in my apartment, and I'm a regular at my city's local goth club (the one place I do dress in an outwardly goth style).

But I still feel like an imposter sometimes. Do others struggle with that? I know this might all sound superficial, maybe it's just in my head. Other perspectives might help me. Thanks!