Teen Gothic

I want to start by saying that I’m white and not speaking on anyone’s behalf. I’m responding to a pattern I’ve noticed on Reddit and other social media and it’s been bothering me for some time.

Over the years, I’ve seen posts from POC goths who’ve been bullied or excluded for not fitting the “pale” ideal, which is ridiculous. What’s worse is how often their concerns are dismissed with claims that goth has always been inclusive. Even when the intentions behind those comments are good, the impact isn’t. It shuts down conversation instead of addressing the issue.

Yes, goth (and punk before it) was often more accepting than other subcultures. Punk was influenced by rude boy culture, and reggae and dub were played alongside it at shows. But that doesn’t mean racism didn’t exist in those scenes. “More inclusive than average” isn’t the same as being inclusive for everyone.

A lot of us who were born well after the civil rights era (myself included) don’t fully understand what exclusion looked like in practice. I grew up in rural Florida and saw overt racism firsthand, but I never experienced places where Black people simply weren’t allowed, and pretending I fully understand that reality would be dishonest.

We can acknowledge that goth aspired to be inclusive in its inception and still listen when POC goths talk about the real challenges they face today. Giving credit where it’s due shouldn’t come at the expense of dismissing lived experiences.

If we actually care about the values we claim, that means listening, empathizing, and speaking up when we see this kind of thing.

Edit for clarification:

I’m not talking about “permission” to be in the subculture or gatekeeping who gets to call themselves goth. What I am talking about is how, in practice, POC goths are still talked over, dismissed, or told that they’re just one-off incidents.

When someone shares what they’re dealing with and the response is an overwhelming chorus of “goth has always been inclusive,” it can come across as dismissive, even if the intention is good.

I think there should be a rule blocking those type of posts here, and there should be a subreddit called something like r/newtogoth. That subreddit could be for people who are new to goth (baby bats) only, and could be for asking questions and learning.

They are spooky Interpol for people with shit boundary issues in their relationships. I am guilty as charged for using Tear You Apart as a weapon for shortening smoke breaks in the past, but it has officially become the Enjoy the Silence of goth nights.

I actually respect crowds more when I see it fall flat on them now. I give out a lil unheard sigh that gets buried under the music when I see them on request sheets. One of the members running a sketchy club known for burying allegations doesn't help either!

The more of their music I listened to, the lyrics sound like someone with controlling dominance behavioral issues reliving their prior toxic relationships and waving the red flags in your face. I get that it's catchy, but of all bands out there, is this really the one that deserves the pedestal given? Thanks for listening to me rant while the caffeine hits my blood stream.

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For the handful of people in the worldwide goth community who still don't know there is currently an error on Spotify that concerns goth/punk/post punk music fans.

When you access Siouxsie and the Banshees on Spotify, a picture of The Isley Brothers pops up instead. It is unknown if this a real error or done on purpose for black history month. Someone else noticed Corpus Delicti's Twilight had the wrong album cover on it, unsure if this is related or not.

We have removed at least 5 posts about this so far posting a screencap. If you must talk about it then do it here.

If you want to make jokes about it, someone posted it in r/gothmemes and you can do it there too – https://www.reddit.com/r/gothmemes/comments/1ah8h37/favourite_member/

Bear with me as I'm a babybat. Around the late 1980's and early 1990's, movies such as the Lost Boys, the Craft, the Crow, Interview with a Vampire, etc. were sensationalizing the goth scene, and I think this really gave them a brief period of significant presence within popular culture. I think the Goths of the 90's were a really pivotal point for the scene's history.

Then around the early 2000's we started seeing this "goth" or "gothic" stock characters appearing in media, which more or less still exists in the 2020's, with each incarnation of this stock having lesser and lesser resemblance to its roots.

I cannot really remember a movie in recent time that's meant to resonate with our scene. There was that one movie (name I forgot) where a man becomes a popular Goth singer, and then moves to Europe because his father might have been a nazi or something, but I think that film was trying to more or less mock the subculture because the protagonist "sheds" their Goth-ness by the end.

I've been goth for about a year and a half now, is there like a certain point in time when you stop being one, or a certain age? I've just been wondering because I'm kinda new to the goth community, and I only have like two other goth friends, and they don't know either 😭

edit- I should add, I'm not well aware of what exactly a "baby bat" is so… 💀

95% of it was exactly what you’d expect from someone who follows this subreddit. The outlier was just my strange love (no pun intended) of Doja Cat. A guilty pleasure, but still one that I can at least admit to. Amidst a sea of Post Punk, industrial, dark wave, etc there she was.

Anyone have a similar experience? I’d love to hear I’m not the only one with a random wild card in their music taste